The Archive of the Romanian Revolution of December 1989

A Catch-22 December 1989, Groundhog-Day Production. Presenting the Personal Research & Scholarship of Richard Andrew Hall, Ph.D.

Revizionism despre cazul MApN 23-24 decembrie ’89: de catre cine si cu ce scop?

Posted by romanianrevolutionofdecember1989 on December 19, 2009

for the broader discussion in English see Doublespeak: The All-Too-Familiar Tales of Nicolae Ceausescu\’s Double

The DIA variant, so dear to the hearts of Ceausescu’s double and his Securitate counterparts, has a long and fabled history. In the early and mid-1990s, it became a favorite of the opposition to the communist successor regime of President Ion Iliescu—an opposition that included many of those who had suffered most under the old regime. (After being voted out in 1996, Iliescu returned to the presidency in the 2000 elections.) In the opposition press, noted journalists such as Ioan Itu and Ilie Stoian at “Tinerama,” Cornel Ivanciuc at “22″ and later at “Academia Catavencu, ” and Petre Mihai Bacanu at “Romania Libera” promoted the DIA thesis at one time or another.

Marius Mioc despre colaborarea cu securitatea a lui Ioan Itu

significantly, Itu didnt just collaborate with just anybody, but–like Sorin Rosca Stanescu–precisely the USLA, from 1978 to 1983 !

The following article, in which Itu exculpated the USLA (Securitate) and attempted to cast blame instead on the DIA (Army)–in part by taking out of context the communication that is recreated–has been used by Denis Deletant, Peter Siani-Davies, and others to suggest how original understandings of the December events were erroneous.  In twenty years, there has not been a single confirmation that at this moment “army units were attacking their own Ministry” as the article suggests.

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By the end of 1993, Itu had become a strong proponent of the DIA theory, which had its roots directly in the former Securitate:

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3 Responses to “Revizionism despre cazul MApN 23-24 decembrie ’89: de catre cine si cu ce scop?”

  1. Radu said

    I’m trying to follow the development of the events from 20 years ago from this and other sites, and I appreciate the work you are doing. I have a few questions to which you may know the answer, or at least have some conjecture about it.
    1. Why, as per the video you presented yesterday, were the USLA troops dressed in military uniform, and all wearing civilian clothing underneath? They were not part of the military troops.
    2. Why was the military firing against their own headquarters (as you say, there is no confirmation of this)? There should be witnesses of this, from within the military to the local population. The idea of Army group 2 fighting against the revolution seems far fetched given the number of people involved, some would have come forward.
    3. Who transmitted the order to expect ‘terrorists’ to be arriving in armored vehicles? It seems the massacre started when USLA gave the incorrect password when joining the tanks. There should be an account of the orders issued to set/change passwords, who gave those?
    4. Why were the injured USLA arrested for several weeks when it became obvious they were there by order of the military?
    I don’t know if you have answers to any of these, but I am very interested in your opinion.

  2. romanianrevolutionofdecember1989 said

    I’m trying to follow the development of the events from 20 years ago from this and other sites, and I appreciate the work you are doing. I have a few questions to which you may know the answer, or at least have some conjecture about it.

    Va multumesc pentru interesul. Hai sa ne mutam de la ne-adevarul tendentios din zilele noastre la cercetare pe baza de detalii! Un raspuns partial mai jos.

    1. Why, as per the video you presented yesterday, were the USLA troops dressed in military uniform, and all wearing civilian clothing underneath? They were not part of the military troops.

    Vedeti comentarile martorilor ocurlari, participantilor direct la aceste eveniment (din articolul Crima? iunie 1990 vedeti aici https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/crima-cazul-mapn-23-24-decembrie-89-si-sosirea-uslasilor-maior-mihai-floca-armata-poporului-6-iunie-1990-p-3/ )

    Capitan Mihai Munteanu: Este oare, intimplator ca din echipajele respective faceau parte doi fost ceisti? De unul dintre acestia destul de dur le era frica multora dintre ofiteri armatei din Bucuresti…iar faptul ca in noaptea respectiva, aceeasi persoana purta uniforma de -a noastra –avind la manta epoletii de locotenent-colonel de geniu si la vestonul de fresco (!) epoleti de maior inginer — cum poate fi interpretat?

    Ce zic tanchistii?

    –Domnule capitan Gheorge Tanase, sinteti comandantul companiei de tancuri care, in acea noapte ocupa dispozitiv de lupta in fata Centrului de Calcul. Ce s-a intimplat, de fapt?

    In afara de modul –interpretat ca suspect–, in care au patruns in dispozitivul dumneavoastra, ce dovezi mai aveti?

    –Faptul ca, la teava unuia dintre tancuri, tabla de protectie a fost rupta in doua locuri, trei din pistoalele mitraliera pe care le-am “capturat” (cu teava scurta si incarcator de 20 cartuse) aveau tevile afumate, turela tancului de comandat de locotenentul maior Vasile Barbu a fost blocata, iar dimineata plutonierul Butoi a gasit pe tancul sau un pistol mitraliera si o lanterna de semnalizare…Cit despre dotare, sa nu-mi zica mie cum am citit intr-un ziar de mare tiraj– ca era jalnica, in nivelul armatei. A doua zi, am recuperat, din cele doua autoblindate, radiotelefoane Telefunken, veste antiglont, pistoale de 9 mm, pumnale, binoclu cu infrarosu — care pentru noi constituiau noutatii absolute. Si, pentru ca tot am fost provocati, sa va mai spun ceva. Dimineata, cind l-am intrebat “de ce ai tras, ma?” unul dintre cei trei supravietuitori, pe care i-am gasit in blocul de vizavi mi-a raspuns: “Ce p. mati, si eu execut acelasi ordin ca si tine!!!” E clar ca nu au venit ca prieteni!

    [sa nu uitam ca la acest moment comandantul uslasilor Ardeleanu a fost sub arest, interogat…cred ca era vorba de o ‘rescue mission’–de aceea el a nominalizat pe Trosca– dar ratata, intr-adevar sinuciagasa…despre uniforme militare si haine civile cred ca asta indica ca intr-adevar a fost vorba de un trucaj, dupa debarcare, ofera posibilitate sa fie interpreta ca militari sau civili…]

    2. Why was the military firing against their own headquarters (as you say, there is no confirmation of this)? There should be witnesses of this, from within the military to the local population. The idea of Army group 2 fighting against the revolution seems far fetched given the number of people involved, some would have come forward.

    [Exact. Speculatia mea–am scris despre asta cred in articolul meu din 2006 (orwellian positively orwellian)–este ca toti au stiut ca comunicarile uslasilor erau ascultate https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/dezinformare-despre-cazul-m-ap-n-23-24-decembrie-1989-dejucata-de-catre-uslasii-ei-insusi/ …cred ca Trosca a incercat sa-i comunice lui Bleort (la sediul usla) si lui Ardeleanu (sub arest in sediul MApN) dispozitive aflate in zona MApN …nici vorba de un atac al armatei, nu exista nici o marturie timp de 20 de ani in privinta aceasta, cu militari in termeni se poate asa ceva, daca intr-adevar s-ar fi intimplat…prostie…inventia lui Trosca atunci este folosita astazi ca o realitate)

    3. Who transmitted the order to expect ‘terrorists’ to be arriving in armored vehicles? It seems the massacre started when USLA gave the incorrect password when joining the tanks. There should be an account of the orders issued to set/change passwords, who gave those?

    [nu cred ca nimeni n-a spus ca ‘vin teroristi [in ABI-urile apartinute in exclusivitate uslasilor]’ nu e clar ca militari aflati in jurul sediului mapn stiau despre sosirea uslasilor si despre cine era vorba, in schimb numai ca cei care au sosit au actionat intr-un mod cel putin ciudat care a sporit suspiciunea lor. exista cum puteti observa transcriere si benzile inregistrate ale comunicarilor intre bleort si trosca–publicate in articolul lui Itu aici https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/revizionism-despre-cazul-mapn-23-24-decembrie-89-de-catre-cine-si-cu-ce-scop/ dar pina acum nu cred ca s-au aparut ceea ce ati semnalat aici]
    https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/crima-cazul-mapn-23-24-decembrie-89-si-sosirea-uslasilor-maior-mihai-floca-armata-poporului-6-iunie-1990-p-3/
    Au venit pe furis…

    Capitan Victor Stoica: Noi — cei care ne aflam in Centrul de Calcul al M.Ap.N. — au putut urmari in intregime, ca dintr-un amfiteatru, acel spectacol zguduitor. Pina acum, nu am luat atitudine, desi eram la curent cu stradaniile unor ziaristi de a-i face eroi pe cei de la U.S.L.A. Am tacut deoarece ne-am gindit ca in urma celor cazuti au ramas sotii, copii –care nu au nici o vina. Dar acum–pentru ca am fost acuzati de crima, sin in nici unul din ziarele civile nu s-a prezentat punctul nostru de vedere–avem obligatia sa spunem ce am vazut. Observatorii nostri au fost contrariati de faptul ca cele doua A.B.I.-uri, venind de pe strada Ho Si Min, au stins farurile cu 20-30 metri inainte de a vira la dreapta, pe Drumul Taberei. Nici o masina blindata–tanc sau T.A.B.–nu procedase, pina atunci astfel. Eram la etajul intii. Am vazut clar cum cele doua autovehicule blindate, s-au furisat intre tancuri, unde au stationat, pret de 20-30 minute. Nici vorba de steagul alb, pomenit de doamna ziarista! Daca au venit cu ginduri curate, de ce s-au oprit intre tancuri si nu s-au indreptat spre poarta ministerului? Probabil din cauza ca — asa cum s-a constatat dimineata — nici un uslas nu avea asupra sa documente de identitate –iata un raspuns care contine alta intrebare! De ce nu au incercat sa ia legatura cu noi? (In A.B.I.-uri, dimineata s-au gasit doua portavoce). Dar sa continuam cu faptele. Am fugit repede la postul meu de lupta, schimbul de focuri incepuse si am vazut, cu ochii mei, cum mitraliera de pe un A.B.I. tragea spre unul din blindatele noastre. Pe unul din tancuri am vazut o umbra — mi s-a parut ca cineva incearca sa foloseasca mitraliera a.a. !! Pentru mine nu este clar nici cum au ajuns cei trei supravietuitori in blocul A.1. Probabil ca ei debarcasera inainte — focul nostru era prea dens ca sa mai scape cineva. Oricum, din felul cum au actionat cele doua echipaje, este clar ca nu au avut intentii prietenesti…Si inca ceva. La aproximativ o ora dupa incetarea focului am vazut vreo zece indivizi care au iesit — cu mare dexteritate — pe unul din geamurile de la parterul blocului B.3…

    Locotonent-major Cristian Costache: Ca ofiter de control si comanduire, asiguram traficul in sediul ministerului. Era acalmie, liniste deplina. Nu fusesem preveniti de sosirea A.B.I.-urilor. Primul care le-a zarit — “doua mogildete” intre tancuri — a fost colegul meu Radu Dragos, capitan post-mortem. A fost impuscat in seara de 24 decembrie…

    4. Why were the injured USLA arrested for several weeks when it became obvious they were there by order of the military?

    [cred ca exista povesti contradictoare in privinta aceasta…fosti uslasi ca de exemplu Tedor Filip (Secretele USLA) spun ca uslasii sint indatori lui Stanculescu fiindca el a dat ordinea pentru ridicarea cadavrelor dupa citeva zile, si ca in primul zi la cirma MApNului in februarie 1990 Stanculescu i-adresat uslasilor cu cuvinte calduroase…e clar ca in interviuri din februarie martie 1990 Stanculescu a negat nu numai ca uslasii au actionat in mod suspect dupa 22 decembrie 1989, dar si ce ei n-au participat in represiunea inainte de 22 decembrie 1989–acesta din urma e clar mincinos, fiindca ca dovada despre faptul ca uslasi au tras in timisoara pe 17 decembrie in Timisoara, si pe 21-22 decembrie in piata universitatii este destul de netagaduita https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/17-decembrie-1989-represiunea-ceausista/ and https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/09/20/21-22-decembrie-1989-piata-universitatii-bucuresti-ziarul-romania-libera-28-decembrie-1993/ ) [am discutat despre aceste in lucruri in Hall 2006 (orwellian positively orwellian)

    I don’t know if you have answers to any of these, but I am very interested in your opinion.

    Sper ca am lamurit cite ceva aici. Va multumesc.

  3. […] https://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/revizionism-despre-cazul-mapn-23-24… […]

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